The Amir, Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat of Nigeria and Senior Lecturer of Economics at the University of Lagos, Dr. Moshood Adenrele Fashola, recently spoke with Senior Correspondent, ARAMIDE OIKELOME, on the state of the nation. He took a swipe at today’s religious leaders for their corrupt tendencies and practices, even as he chided the followers for being materialistic minded. Excerpts:
Fashola
The coming elections seem to be all about religion and ethnicity, so much so that it is like Nigeria is divided along ethnic and religious lines. What is your view on this?
In actual fact, Nigeria is divided along three lines; ethnic, religion and moral. What happened in the past was that Nigerians as a people were more concerned with moral values. By their moral values they looked at people’s belief in truth, in sympathy for one another, in kindness, in honesty and so on. In Yoruba culture, people will say ‘Rather than be a thief, I will be a slave.’ We believe very strongly in moral values, which cut across all religions and this reflects in honesty, hard work, kindness, and sympathy for neighbours and belief in God. Nigerians, whether they are Christians or Muslims, generally believe in God. When a Christian and a Muslim discuss, especially among the Yoruba, they do not bring in their religions. Religion or no religion, the average Nigerian believes in the supernatural, in God and moral values. We are in that uniform line. That is why when people discuss, hardly can you distinguish their religion, be it as a Christian, Moslem or even the African traditional worshippers.
So, the strong polarisation on the issue of religion and ethnicity today is a function of corruption. You know that in the 50s and 60s, religion was not that serious. If anything was serious at that time, it was only tribal differences between the North and South. The North felt they should rule Nigeria forever; the South was left with the challenge of the aftermath of the civil war. Religion was not so much a strong factor; hence the North was the one exploiting that factor. Feudalism dominated against the progressives then. In those days, musicians sang about moral values, not religion.
Today, however, things are changing; people who think our salvation lies in grouping ourselves along religious and tribal lines are making mistake. Corrupt people exploit ethnicity and religious differences to defend themselves when they have failed. When you look at some Nigerians who are morally upright, they don’t talk about religion; they talk about moral values. That is why you see again a poor Igbo man, Hausa man, Yoruba man, all suffering. Poverty does not recognise religion and when the economy is bastardised, we all suffer from it. When there is no electricity we all suffer from it; when there is traffic jam, it doesn’t recognise who you are; it does not care whether you are an Igbo or Hausa, you suffer from traffic jam, insecurity and now look at Boko Haram attacks. Those who are corrupt elements are the ones trying to rope in religion; these are reckless people who want power at all cost. Look at what they are doing. Do you think a true man of God will be the one destroying people and not showing mercy? Look at how they massacre villages. Are there no Muslims there? Of course, it is not only Christians they are killing, they are killing everybody, irrespective of religion? If it were to be soldiers only that they are killing, we would have said they want revolution but they are killing all without care.
People who make the mistake to follow religion and ethnicity are ignorant and short sighted; in fact, they lack wisdom. Man will always have a pluralistic society apart from predictions scripturally and scientifically which says that the whole world will become one. Go to any city, whether London, New York or Lagos. You will find diverse people of different religion. It is not possible to separate man any more, either religious wise or ethnic wise. Go to any place you will see Christians, Muslims, and Atheists of divers race and colour mixing together. For example here in Lagos we have people of all groups. It is the same in London. In fact, in London real indigenes are now a minority group.
It is foolish for people to now bring in religion and tribalism into calculus in managing our society. There shall never be peace. What you need to bring in is morality. Whoever is a thief is a thief. You cannot use religion to defend criminality. Basically, we should ensure security of lives and property. After all, it is not my fault that I am born Igbo or Yoruba; neither is it by choice that I am born into a Muslim or Christian family. There will be no end to strive if we bring religion and tribalism into our politics. Good people exist everywhere. There are good Christians and there are bad Christians; likewise there are good Muslims and bad Muslims.
Corruption will thrive where there is selfish interest. The thing that can unite humanity is moral values and that is what we should fight for; otherwise there will be no end.
Will you then say that religion has promoted corruption in Nigeria?
Yes, it has. We have more corrupt religious leaders and materialistic followers. So, the blame is on all those religious leaders who take advantage of the materialistic tendencies of the masses. Religion is not for materialism. But, many religious leaders of today have developed insatiable hunger for money. Unfortunately, the masses also are looking for what religion does not give and therefore some clever guys have exploited that opportunity, calling themselves religious leaders; pastors, Imams.
Look at the prophets of God; did they seek materialism? They sought after honesty, truthfulness, courage, truth. A man of truth has no friends and truth is bitter. If you want to follow truth you have to endure some degradation. The masses are looking for materialism whereas religion has come to teach moral development, purity and the love of God. Those who love God will sacrifice. There are some Muslim clerics who are like business men, who come to seek money and power; who do some fetish things in order to capture the hearts of people. Religion has come to teach morality, courage, discipline, selflessness and service to humanity.
You can see great men and women who have served God like Mary Slessor and Mother Theresa. Mary fought to save the lives of the twins while Mother Theresa took care of the lepers and the sick. See Jesus Christ and Mohammed; they never enjoyed life. When Mohammed got to Medina, they waged war against him; in fact, he had no time to rest. Jesus Christ said even the fox have where to stay but the son of man has no place to lay his head.
Why would you blame followers of religious leaders for being materialistic?
The masses too are to blame because they do not recognise men of truth and men of God. They are going to fake Imams and pastors who are only materialistic. When you see a Muslim or Christian leader who is materialistic, he does not belong to Mohammad or Jesus. You know a rich man came to Jesus, but He didn’t ask him for camel for evangelism or money to build a Cathedral or house. Rather, He asked him if he obeys God’s commandment. In other words, Jesus asked if he is forthright and just. When he answered that he obeys all the commandments, Jesus said He should sell all his belongings and give to the poor, then follow Him. If we are all sincere and honest in this nation, everybody will be rich. I’m an economist and I know that we can turn Nigeria to paradise. I know and I can prove it in the public, we can make every Nigerian comfortable, but we are unable to do so because of corruption. It is possible to give everybody minimum wage here whether there is work or no work. As a Senior Lecturer of Economics in the University of Lagos, for 13 years, I was getting the Best Lecturer’s Award. So, I know what I’m talking about.
Where did we miss it?
We missed it because of western civilisation. You know it has often been predicted that we will fall apart by 2015. Who manufactured ammunition for us? It is the West. They were the ones who force amalgamation on Nigeria in 1914. Because the West wanted to continue to exploit us, they didn’t want us to progress. If we want to progress we must come down from the level of luxury. We are so poor that we are not manufacturing jeeps. We cannot develop if we are using all the goods Europe is using. We have not gotten to that level of wealth they are, yet we want to enjoy like them. We want Europe’s housing designs and that is why low cost housing cannot succeed.
The level of living at the centre of periphery; it is like living in Ikoyi, we are closer to London. In that instance, if I’m a minister, then I can send my children abroad and when I have medical problem, I go abroad for treatment. That can never bring development. Our leaders want to enjoy the best of life than the Europeans, hence as they get better paid than even the Congressmen in Britain and United States. We are wasting trillions of Naira that can boost the living standard of all Nigerians. For many decades now, there is no railway line that can connect all states capital to each other. We have only been able to connect Lagos to Kano. How many people are benefiting from it? The problem is that we copied the bad things from Western civilization and you know the West don’t tolerate any corrupt leader in their system; they will not. If you steal a kobo they will deal with you. You can’t be immoral; they will deal with you. Every leader there must be upright. When Clinton was having illicit romance, they dealt with him. So, if you must be a leader you must be upright; that is what they desire. But here in Africa, we support corrupt leaders in all respect. A leader can do anything in this country without anything happening. He can have as many girl friends as he wants. You cannot do that in Europe; so it is not out of place to say that Western Civilisation brought abject poverty because of inequality.
Unfortunately these countries come here to bribe our leaders to get contracts such that what they can do for 20 million dollars, they do it for 200 million dollars with all the money going back to them. They have nothing to sell. Is there any made in England product? Yet they are still making a lot of money, because Nigerians are going there to bring their products.
They will not want Nigeria to emerge as a great economy because if Nigeria emerges as a great economy, it will also gather the whole of Africa and there will be regional power.
When you look at the coming elections, does anything bother you?
I am bothered because people want to rely on force to continue to be in power. You can see the writing on the wall; you can see the Niger Delta acquiring ammunition, the military being brought in. Murtala Mohammed was accepted by Nigerians when he ruled us and when he died, we all wept, including the Igbo. He wanted to give Nigeria development, but was cut short and we know who were behind it. They knew that Nigeria wanted to liberate South Africa and Africa, but the West used Babangida to deceive us. For eight years, he deceived us and there no progress. During his regime, we had the highest inflation rate.
When Abiola contested, Nigerians voted en masse; Igbo voted, likewise Hausa and Yoruba and the man was determined to address poverty. The West saw it and knew he was a rebel against the West; hence they got rid of him with the support of some internal elements.
So, we should know that it is not in the interest of the West for Nigeria to emerge developed. I don’t blame them because the world is competitive; there is competition everywhere even in the animal kingdom. So, we are the one to fight. Those who want to destroy Nigeria will get western support, intelligent wise and military wise. Already, they have predicted that Nigeria will break up, there are many groups interested in Nigeria’s break up. There are some extremist Muslim groups who want that break up so they can have a Caliphate.
Some misguided people are listening to some religious preaching. I think they are foolish. Your best friend may not be of your religion what is needed is moral values. Even your own blood brother can be your greatest enemy so we should not be led to think that your religion, outward appearance or tribe matters over moral values.
I don’t look at the outward or what you call yourself, but I need you being straight forward, having character and moral values; then we can cooperate and move forward. The devil can claim to be a Christian or Muslim. If you are born Igbo or Yoruba, it is not your fault, so why will I now want to hate you because of your tribal or origin? Humanity will make progress the moment we get rid of all this discrimination whether class, gender, ethnicity or religion because humanity is in everybody, so we should not discriminate at all.
The postponement of election has helped to calm many frayed nerves. As we prepare for March 28 and April 11, what should we focus on?
Some of us still believe in God, I have personal evidence that there is God. Many people don’t believe in God. I still believe God knows what is happening. God will select His own. However we are praying that God should come to our aid for He is the God of all creation, whether human or animal. There are people who think they are clever; but they are not wise. God still has supremacy over those who think they are clever. He is the King of King. If anything happens; he allows it for reasons best known to him.
If we are corrupt, God can arrange corrupt leaders to rule or deal with us. The average Nigerian is very corrupt. Like a lady going after a wicked man because of his money and after marrying him, he starts showing his wickedness. Why not look for a pious man instead of a rich man, or else when he starts his wickedness God will just be looking at him.
We are praying that God should forgive us; some of us have been reckless, corrupt and have followed evil people when we know they are corrupt and so we are suffering. We sing their praises when we know they are bad people, so we are praying that God should forgive us and give us men of justice, who fear Him, who will give Nigerians great opportunities, who will not look at religion but bring development to this country. I believe God of mercy will show us mercy. Like a pastor said, the ruling of demons has ended. People are suffering untold hardship; there is lack of medical attention and nutrition. I pray that God of mercy comes to the aid of Nigerians.
The Presidential candidate of the All Progressive Congress, Muhammadu Buhari, has been stigmatised and accused of likely to Islamise Nigeria. Do you think that is possible?
I was a Planning Officer, Grade 2 in 1962 and I know this man very well. You know a Christian or Muslim can be devoted. I was called a Taliban because of the way I dress. Buhari will never Islamise Nigeria. The man is liberal. Even though he is a serious minded Muslim, but he is not a fanatic. You can be assured of that, he is not a dictator or paramount ruler. In fact, it is not going to be possible for anybody to Christianise or Islamise any nation. We have gone beyond that. We should not entertain such fear; though there are checks and balances. Nigerians have grown better now. When you look at the social media, the youths are not even religious inclined now; they have become independent minded. It is only corrupt leaders that are blowing up the issue of religion. If you see the youths, they work with each other, they mix very well, go to the campuses you will see it; religion or no religion, they are getting along. The elite don’t want Buhari there because he will get back the wealth they have stolen, he might not jail them but he would get back the stolen wealth.
As an economist, how would you access President Jonathan’s administration?
Sincerely there is stinking wealth in this nation for everybody; that wealth should be so much that Nigerians will be treated as kings wherever they go.
We need to generate income from manufacturing. Look at China, the whole world is buying Chinese handsets, motorcycles, even if it is cheap and inferior. What are the Nigerian products that are seen all over the world? The economy does not favour industrialisation. When you talk about economy you talk about electricity, transport, railway transport, what about education, infant and maternal mortality etc. By now we should have completely eradicated maternal and infant mortality, which is as a result of lack of good nutrition and primary health care. What about exam practices? We are getting more and more corrupt. For me, the real key indicators of development are not there. It’s not building of houses in Ikoyi or Abuja that are indices of development. Majority of Nigerians are not sharing of the so called development that we boast of. There is no development when the poor gets poorer. In Economics, real development demands that nobody should get poorer. Many have lost their jobs. If there is development nobody should retrogress, there is lot of retrogression everywhere.
Workers are not paid; electricity is so volatile and 2000 megawatts has dropped. Is that development? It is sad when they don’t give light when you need it most. As for me, I’m not for any religion or tribe. The God I serve is the God of all flesh. There are many Nigerians who don’t know what they are doing. You cannot serve God while discriminating. There was a student whose name was dropped during admission in my department and I fought so hard, though he was a Christian and of Igbo tribe. In fact, a man wondered why I did so. I know God is of Igbo and Yoruba I must fight for him. I will not fight because you are Muslim or Yoruba. People say they pray for me to be Vice Chancellor so that I can help their children. No, I will only help if they merit it, and that is true religion. God is for merit; no parochial dealing for anybody and that is what I believe we should be after. I believe God will come to our aid, we want someone that will make all Nigerians happy and that because we are really one.
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